The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
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Martin Saffer
Aug 12, 2011
8:24 am
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The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
here is an email i got which tells the story of those too small to lease and the consequences for all leasing or not Dear Mr. Martin Saffer, |
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Martin Saffer
Aug 12, 2011
8:34 am
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
another letter...same view Dear People, after much research I am one hundred percent against Marcellus Shale drilling in Pocahontas County. I have |
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freeholder
Aug 12, 2011
7:43 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Who sells and installs solar panels in Pocahontas Co.? |
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JIM
Aug 14, 2011
9:56 am
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Solar panels require chemicals and heavy metals for manufacture. The wastestream created by manufacture is extremely hazardous; but I guess as long as they are manufactured some place else we can feel that we are "true environmentalists" Some how people do not understand that there are trade off's with any type of energy production, but it is ok as long as it is not in our backyard. |
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freeholder
Aug 14, 2011
11:58 am
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Who manufactures anything in Pokey?A g glass panel with copper wires attached can act as a solar panel. They leave a wastestream of heavy metal? Could that be a bit hyperbolic? By the way: coal burned in the county is mined someplace else also. A gas company engineer told some that it would be cheaper to pipe in gas from Randolph than to drill in Pocahontas. Another bubble in my stream of thought:The bottled gas used in Pokey is also prepared and shipped in from elsewhere. |
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RML
Aug 14, 2011
1:04 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Freeholder: Ed White ('Doc Electric') did an excellent job installing our solar panels a couple years ago. I've worked for a decade with a reliable company selling US-made panels. There's a mess of China stuff being sold that should be avoided. As for the environment, at least US panels are made in plants which must meet some standards... -- Rich |
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JIM
Aug 14, 2011
3:26 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Here's your list! A lot of toxic materials that go into the production of the solar cells including cadmium, selenium, silicon tetrachloride and sulfur hexafluoride. As for hyperbolic, |
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freeholder
Aug 14, 2011
4:42 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
I have not used the copper wire,glass but some have including female survivalists.I am told that heating water in a plastic milk carton with direct sunlight will kill enough bacteria to make it safe. Then there are the mexican teapots where water for tea is heated by "Old Sol" .Most of us partially understand passive heating , but not the storage for later use.I'll bet RML does, though,along with the building of something called Trombe walls. The waste stream of solar cannot be compared with coal;black lung, ruined streams,copd,mountaintop removal etc or fracted gas which may destroy drinking water for miles with dangerous chemicals in huge amounts. We are all environmentalists:some want to make it safe for all, others want to deride them while destroying it. |
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RML
Aug 14, 2011
5:31 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Passive solar hot water isn't reliable where winters get extremely cold. There's an active solar-electric water heater would be a cost-effective replacement when your old electric heater quits. A 'trombe' wall is heated by the sun during the day and releases the heat at night -- like a heat battery. Some of the stuff that goes into solar panels would be a problem if it got into the environment, but it generally does not. The panels will work for 20 to 30 years, so there's little waste. When it comes to permanent contamination of our water supply there has never been a threat greater than that posed by deep drilling of Marcellus shale. Added to all its other problems, Marcellus shale contains radioactive isotopes. Geologists call it "Black Radioactive Shale". -- Rich |
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JIM
Aug 14, 2011
8:06 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
As we speak with one another I would assume you are one of those who wants his cake and eat it too, and you believe that I am one who would poison the earth for the sake of profit, and the truth of the matter neither opinion is probably true. Since I am in the environmental remedation and water clean up business more regulations only serve to make me money. |
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Martin Saffer
Aug 16, 2011
1:41 pm
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Modified Aug 20, 2011 @ 6:21 am Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Another letter to the Commission: Dear Commissioner David Fleming, We recently moved into Pocahontas County to live permanently. We have travelled extensively nationally and internationally and we believe that this county has by far the most beautiful land and pristine environment in the world. Our concern is that hydraulic fracking is being considered in Pocahontas County, a county in West Virginia with the most state and national park land, providing a safe environment for natural game and wildlife, including the Cheat Mountain Salamander, an endangered species. Perhaps you have seen the film “Gasland”. It premièred at the 2010 Sundance Film Festival and won the Documentary Special Jury prize. Josh Fox directed the film because the natural gas drilling industry offered him money to lease his land in Pennsylvania and this aroused his curiosity. After an extensive investigation he found that every fracking drilling site and community that he visited had sick and dying animals, contaminated water and chronically ill residents. (1) Hydraulic fracking has a detrimental impact on the health of people and animals. We do not want this in Pocahontas County. Hydraulic fracking uses on average 4.5 million gallons of water per operation. We recently had a well put in and clean water is very precious to us. There are neighbors in our area without water, because their wells ran dry. What would be the implications of this amount of water usage on our current water reserves? Conglomerations of toxic chemicals are used in hydraulic fracking. For every 4.5 million gallons of fracking liquid, about 22,500 gallons of these are chemicals. These chemicals are listed as “petroleum distillates” which can include benzene, etc. What impact do these chemicals have on ground water? We and most people in Pocahontas County depend on well water for drinking and we cannot take the unnecessary risk of chemical contamination. Fracking has inherent safety risks. In a rural Pennsylvania town in Bradford County, a natural gas well “blew out” spilling thousands of gallons of chemical-laced water, contaminating a stream and forcing the evacuation of seven families from their homes. (2) It has been well documented that fracking has not been a safe process in other locations as well. We do not want hydraulic fracking here in Pocahontas County. Hydraulic fracking is not only a vertical drilling process but a horizontal one as well, with high pressure water and chemicals forced into the earth which effects the stability of the ground itself. In Britain, Cuadrilla Resources, a British fracking company postponed its operations because the British Geological Survey recorded an earthquake at a depth of 1.25 miles with a magnitude of 1.5 while it was exploring for gas shale formations. (3) What is the impact of hydraulic fracking on seismic activity, and how does this effect the National Radio Astronomy Observatory and the surrounding area? Pocahontas County must be protected from the hazards presented by hydraulic fracking. We urge you, our county commissioners, to refrain from issuing permits to any fracking company so that the air , water and land in Pocahontas County be preserved and not poisoned. Please do not sacrifice rural West Virginia. Natural beauty and the limited clean water supply that is found in this county are becoming very, very rare. Pocahontas County is one of the most beautiful areas in America, let’s keep it that way. “Don’t Frack with Pocahontas County!” Kindest regards, Charlie & Michelle Bubnis Sources: (1) Denton. Tru. “Fracking, Drilling and Human Health” The Human Ecologist, Spring 2011. |
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JIM
Aug 19, 2011
8:49 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
You know sometimes it is not necessarily about gas wells with me, and maybe it is narrow minded on my part, but I resent people moving into Poca. Co. and want to dictate what goes on in the county. It is as if they know all and us natives are irrogant, unable to direct our own way. |
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normanalderman
Aug 19, 2011
10:16 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Me too! |
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Martin Saffer
Aug 20, 2011
5:47 am
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Gentlemen, I think it is divisive and throws all of us off track to fracture this very important discussion into talk about who has been here the longest. Rather we should talk about the water and who can remain here without it. |
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Martin Saffer
Aug 20, 2011
6:16 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Also, just for perspective, the gas companies (the corporations) are not even "people" and they certainly are not "natives" and the legislature, which you might hope would step up to the plate, is showing such lack of concern it might as well be on Mars as Charleston. Imagine this....the drought as bad as it is now and the water so scarce that streams are barely pools and gardens dry up and die and on top of that....and the water left in your well perhaps ruined. We can not afford to make mistakes. We can only act with a full appreciation of the consequences. An "OPPS!" later wont do it. |
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JIM
Aug 20, 2011
9:35 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
No one can argue the importance of clean water, just as no one can argue the need for a stable financial system or the need to keep society from collapsing. I consider it very noble to want to protect the water quality, however sometimes I think that is used as an excuse to argue against progress. ( I have "my" little utopia and I don't want that to change) |
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normanalderman
Aug 20, 2011
10:13 pm
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
I ran into my friend Allen Johnson at Dunmore Daze and had a nice conversation about fracking. He had a friend there I didn't know and she was quite shocked to discover the department of highways uses fracking brine as deicer on our highways under and agreement from the DEP. The logical conclusion (howbeit, wrong) is that if it is safe to be put on our highways, it is safe 5,000 feet under the ground. You can see the tank up at the Slatyfork salt shed. It merely reinforces the notion that DEP is a mere handmaiden of the corporations. I have been fighting DEP over the Howe's mess for years and know personally that they are not here to protect our water supply They have done nothing but hide the truth about hexavalent chromium and the buried transformers there. They won't test for that because they know what they would find. Secondly, what about the DEP's approval of land application of human sewage on the Green Bank farm. That has deadly possibilities. I took pictures of the newly buried tanks beside the concrete plant. You will see that there are signs restricting anyone from getting close to see what and why those tanks are buried so close to Deer Creek. Deer Creek is under major assault at this point. Who cares? Not DEP! These are our regulatory protectors but they won't do the job. Why do we think that adding more regulations will make DEP a better agency. They won't! Can't we find some other way other than a government regulation to halt fracking? A regulation is only as good as its enforcement. I believe that we need to enforce the current regulations before we had any more burdens to our future. Let's get Howes cleaned up, stop putting fracking flue on our highways, and stop placing dead human sewage on our farmland. Then we can deal with the fracking problem underground. I stand for property rights, the right of an individual to develop his property without government interference. Stopping someone from drilling on his/her property for natural gas requires that the owner be compensated for those valuable resources. The constitution allows for the protection of society from hazardous situations. It allows for property to be taken by the government for the benefit of the community. But it requires compensation. Hundreds of folks in Pocahontas County had their property seized (condemned) by the government in the thirties. We are benefiting from that "taking" today with the vast national forest. But all of those folks were compensated for their property. When Walt Helmick had property lying beneath the national forest (coal) he was compensated for the loss of that property. That was the right thing to do; it was the constitutional thing to do. He is not to be condemned for expecting and, in fact, requiring it to be do. A fracking ordinance attempts to inhibit a process for obtaining the "mining" of a natural resource. It would do so without compensation to the landowner. I know that a moratorium will not stand up in court short of compensation. I am scared about fracking, myself, but I am concerned that the landowners will be cheated out of their property rights. Let's be careful to have a "balance" between the two. Using fracking fluid on the highways is a disaster in the making. Our government upholds this practice. Putting raw human sewage on our farms may kill some of us. Let's put our money behind our method. Let's be consistent. If fracking fluid is harmful, let's stop it being used on the highways, THEN we can have a dialogue about what it does 5,000 feet underground. I feel like I am by myself in voicing this concern but I choose to do so. |
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RML
Aug 21, 2011
10:30 am
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Re: The plight of the small land owner...and everyone else later
Norman is correct in saying that government regulation has not been enough to protect our environment. But what is the alternative? If Norman knows of a better way to protect our environment, please share it with the rest of us. As for defining property rights as "the right of an individual to develop his property without government interference" Norman misses the key point about deep drilling for gas. The real threat to our water and our property rights is not "government interference". The real threat is from private corporations. If your water is poisoned by a nearby fracking well, will it really make you and your family feel better to know that the poison comes from a private source? -- Rich |