Martin V. Saffer, Pocahontas County Commissioner
 
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PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

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Martin Saffer
Jan 1, 2012
8:41 am
PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

The PSC vs. PSD sewer battle at Snowshoe is a real immediate problem that needs focus from the Commission. Here is an email I received which I agree with 100%:

I hope that you and David are staying close to this.

The strong handed threats by the PSC and DEP - e.g. fines against the PSD and individual PSD members - are nothing more than bullying tactics.

The accusations against Litsey - especially without evidence - are borderline libelous. Requesting his resignation based on a unfounded conflict of interest is out of the authority of the PSC and DEP. My understanding is these matters are reviewed / handled by a State ethics board.

I seriously doubt that the Thrasher Facilities Plan received such scrutiny by the DEP or PSC - certainly the issuance of a FONSI by the DEP - the basis of 8Rivers lawsuit - shows that. When I called the PSC to offer to present our concerns regarding the Thrasher Plan their engineer said he was not interested and refused. He also said the only karst in the valley was in the streambed - which demonstrates the ability/level of concern of the PSC for the technical merit of any plan.

I am disappointed as both responses show that agencies will do whatever is necessary to justify/defend their decision/position - apparently a foregone conclusion - and that the PSD do not really control a project but are expected to be "Yes" men.

In my view the PSD has done an admirable job - on their own - to find a better/less expensive solution. Just because their proposal missed some deliverables is no reason to make threats or rebuke the PSD in public documents. The proper response would have been to point out the deficiencies and request the PSD provide the information or submit a reasonable plant to obtain the information in a timely manner.

egad
Jan 1, 2012
11:01 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

I agree that, as far as I can tell, the PSD has done a good job, a responsible job in finding a solution to a difficult problem. They deserve our praise and support. The DEP again shows how 'helpful' they can be. I know the DEP is overwhelmed. I almost believe it is the plan of elected state officials to keep them that way so the officials can sneak money making, unfair, un sanitary, polluting, thoughtless schemes past us. I don't want to sink to the level of imaginary conspiracy theory, but it often looks as if something like that is afoot.

I know I am a Johnny-one-note, but can you imagine this same DEP, who has failed miserably so far in managing the fracking disaster elsewhere or helping with our local but important Snowshoe issue, looking after us here against a multi-national big moneyed business , 'helping us' protect our water? As the writer above says, "We are expected to be 'Yes' men.

We are abandoned by Charleston; they won't take us seriously until we serfs say 'NO!" to their poison.

The Lord of the Manor had a right to tell his serfs what to do, to not care how they got on, to even take their lives by taking their water if he so willed it with his right to do with his property as he wished. That was the early medieval period in history.

America was founded on the principles of the Enlightenment, basically. Sometimes, when I hear and read what others say, I wonder if we are not again stuck in Medieval England and some imagine themselves the Earl of Pocahontas.

freeholder
Jan 2, 2012
10:36 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

I see nothing wrong in a landowner or developer making use of a public utility such as a sewer or water system.I look askance , though,at him being on the board which decided on the site Also,the proposed Snowshoe sewer project seems a little strange when we are told that 3 sewers for one community are cheaper than one. Three may have other values, but lower cost could not be one of them.

David Litsey
Jan 2, 2012
11:10 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Hang on Freeholder: There has not been a decision on where the plants are or should be. There has only been an information collection process begun and just about concluded with all information shared openly and willingly at no less than four information and sharing sessions to date.

This Saturday, at 7PM at the Linwood Library, the public is invited to weigh in on their opinions as to what it should be, the options considered, the cost per customer of the various options, and indeed choices on the value you place on human life versus $2.34 cents a month. This meeting has been advertised for a month.

As for the alledged conflict of interest? It doesn't exist - The last thing I want for the gas and oil leased land on the North Face of Mace Knob is development anywhere near it. I testified under oath that I want nothing to do with the sewer system for that property and I mean it. That lease has been in effect for three years and will still be in effect when I leave the board. In the mean time, the accusers have not produced one single shred of evidence to support their claim that there is a conflict of interest other than the one shared by other persons similarly effected - as in all of the other rate payers. To that I plead guilty, yes, I will have to pay the bill and it concerns me.

The only thing that I have done to date is to insist that the information requested by Eight Rivers in March of 2007, the County Commission in April of 2007, and the Pocahontas COunty Times in April of 2007 be provided. Thrasher Engineering certified in its facilities report that the Silver Creek Location was the Best possible site for a single plant serving the mountain top (March 2009) What we found out is that it can be done for about $25,000,000 less than what they said.

Can we even afford that? I honestly don't know. And I hope you will come and share your opinion. How is that for fair?

Joe Ferretti
Jan 2, 2012
11:20 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Freeholder, I believe the decentralized system being proposed makes use of some existing infrastructure as opposed to the building of a centralized "mega-plant" that services all areas. The decentralized system avoids the necessity of transferring the sewage great distances over rough terrain and addresses the complexity and unknown dangers of significant interbasin transfer of water (Shavers Fork drainage to Elk River drainage areas). Thus the potential for costs savings with the three plant system.

IMO, what this comes down to is what is needed/wanted in the Linwood area and up and down Route 219. Some locals want services in that area (for property values and development possibilities) and others do not (concerns for costs) The two major developments in the area under question (Slaty Ridge and Slaty Fork Farms) apparently do not want the Route 219 system due to anticipated costs. Other landholders along Route 66 and 219 want the mega-system for obvious reasons. While there is no solution to make everyone happy, the county as a whole and certainly all residents of the affected area should be closely looking at costs.

freeholder
Jan 2, 2012
12:07 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

I appreciate the information in the above posts and the time taken to send it on the forum. I do not mean to be accusatory in any manner and acknowledge that my opinion may be a bit superficial;I am a non engineer who has never dug anything larger than a tulip bed.My thoughts on the issue of 3 sewers versus 1 are influenced by the way that Tygart Valley handled the project: There is the treatment plant built at Mill Creek which also serves Huttonsville,Valley Bend, Dailey, East Dailey and I believe, part of Beverly. The distance and total population involved seem comparable to that of the Snowshoe area. But building in flat Tygart Valley perhaps is simpler than on a mountain with unusual twists and turns and rare soil called karst.It must be an engineers nightmare. Thanks for the public hearings.

David Litsey
Jan 10, 2012
12:36 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

On Saturday, January 7th, 2012, an historic first occurred. For the first time in ten years, a group of all-comers - invited for four consecutive weeks by ads in the Pocahontas County Times, expressed a unamity of opinion on a treatment site location for the Snowshoe Sewage Situation.

I asked the assembled group at the very end this general question, - Is there anyone here that objects to the SBR site at the existing VIllage Plant and the Two Million Dollar savings it represents as the treatment site for the mountain top solution? There were no objections.

None!

For the Valley Solution the task is one of choice and expense. We have three willing landowners, three good sites, and an excellent ongoing process to make sure that the details of those costs are made fully public, and that the sites are documented safe by appropriate methodologies that has already started and will be finished next week. The board will vote. Cost, not safety, will be the deciding factor for this board member. Safety is task one, and it must be satisfied before we even vote.

Whatever, the outcome, I will be eternally appreciative to the cooperative spirit and willingness to serve the common good of Mr. Curtis, Mr. Galford, and Mr. Deberry of Snowshoe who are working equally hard and making personal sacrifices to make this come to fruition. With their continued support and helpfulness the Public Service District will meet its mandate.

BE SAFE! BE FRUGAL! BE DONE!

Martin Saffer
Jan 10, 2012
1:00 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Great News!

egad
Jan 10, 2012
1:59 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Hurrah! thanks for all your work.

David Litsey
Jan 22, 2012
11:58 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Just a quick update: Yet another successful meeting on Friday with Landowners: Information from engineer that they have found a path to bring down the cost for the Valley Solution no matter what site chosen with semi final numbers due out early this week. Interestingly one of the cost reduction answers was found exploring an option presented by a DEP Engineer. An example of the fruits of cooperation long sought after. Hurray for the DEP!

Our attorney has instructions to go to PSC attorney with some "preference" questions regarding land acquisition that were described as "The kind of questions they love to answer becasue they demonstrate real progress." We will know those answers soon as well.

With the answers at hand, can a decision be far behind? - Remember - we have a clear statement from the public and consumers as to the location and strategy for the top and it is the least possible expensive option. Will we be able to accomplish a similarly affordable solution for the bottom? The exciting part is that thanks to the Engineers and the Land Holders the prices are closing in on one another. What is clear is that through their cooperation and assistance in the spirit of public good the cost for consumers will be lower than previously imagined. Thank you Mr. DeBerry, Mr. Galford, and Mr. Curtis for helping to make these choices possible.

David Litsey
Feb 1, 2012
11:39 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Last Night in Durbin, the Pocahontas County Public Service District Chairman Tom Shipley announced two special meetings to be called for NEXT WEEK at the Library in Linwood.

On Tuesday Night the Board will "Receive" the updated version of the facilities plan "update" detailing the costs and features of the various treatment sites and collection systems. It is believed this meeting will be at 7:00 pm and will reflect the best efforts of Dr. Rigby in his tweaking of various previous proposals in accordance with the DEP questions.

On Thursday Night - Same Time, Same Place the Board will vote on its preferred alternatives to serve the mountain community.

It appears at this time it may actually be possible to reach conscensus without acrimony. Ten years ago this process started. Could it be possible that we can put behind this misery come next Thursday Week?

In the meantime we have much for which to be thankful: 1) The coming together of the community to seek out and find a more Karst Friendly solution that may be affordable. 2)Cheapeake Bay standards that have forced improvements in technology and demand for that high level technology that has reduced costs as production costs have decreased. 3) The wisdom of Pocahontas Countian George Phillips in bringing alternatives to the table. 4) The wisdom of our County Commission in supporting the full exploration of this knowledge and Dr. Rigby who was willing to explore it more fully. 5) The Pocahontas County Times and especially Editor Pam Pritt in encouraging this exploration and full disclosure. 6) The courage and sacrifice of residents in discouraging inappropriate takings. 7) the spirit of compromise shown by local landowners and corporations in making alternatives available to the community, and finally, 8) The courage and strength of our County Commission in supporting the search for solutions even in the darkest of times.

Will the spirit of community prevail? An important chapter will be written next week.

egad
Feb 1, 2012
1:55 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Hurrah!

Such a report restores my confidence.

And many thanks to you and all your supporters.

David Litsey
Feb 14, 2012
6:20 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Last Thursday Evening - The Pocahontas County Public Service District passed a resolution by a 2 to 1 margin that designated site 7-A as the preferred site for valley 300,000 gallon per day wate water treatment facility. Site 7A is a new site selected by Snowshoe Mountain Corporation and Dr. Rigby as a possible site that elimated $700,000.00 in Micropyle costs as it sits on a very hard sandstone, $400,000.00 in Lift Pump Station costs, and a large amount in special costs associated with the welcome sign area that is just on the outskirts of site 7- between it and the golf course and tucked back into the woods.)

With the cost savings they were able to realize, Site 7 became very competitive with the other sites, and was deemed safer and less obtrusive by the Board. The Cost will come down even more if chillers are deemed not required by DNR and DEP, and if the Home Owners Association South and West on 219 confirm via their homeowners association bylaw procedures that they do not wish to be connected to the system. The preferred treatment strategy was the utilization of Membrane Technology and exiting via Cupp Run.

The preferred Mountain Top Site was designated as the existing Snowshoe Village facility with Waste Water from Silver Creek to be pumped over the ridge line to the Snowshoe Village. The treatement strategy will be the Sequenced Batch Reactor strategy followed by sand filtration using and improving the existing sand filtration equipment that is currently in place. It will be a 550,000 gallon per day plant with the goal to process everything as fast as it comes in, and storing as little as possible in the EQ facility. The concept is to treat the waste as close to its source as possible and release it back to the natural environment as quickly as possible minimizing risk of storage and catasrophic events, which are never planned.

Both sites will eventually work on the utilization of plants to reduce metals from the water to enhance the water for the reciving trout streams beyond the chemical treatment anticipated to be required for metals removal. The effluent will be released to Cupp Run until such time as it become neccessary to return it to Shavers Fork, a cost saving measure for the time being. Indeed, given the state of the economy, limited growth experience in the last 4 years indicates that it may well be quite some time before the utilization of the assimilative capacity of the Elk Watershed requires such a pump over.

Today, Dr. Rigby, the district engineer, and Chris Negley, attorney, met with representatives of the DEP, PSC, and the IJDC to go over all of their requested information from our last submission. Dr. Rigby, reported a very positive interaction with staff from all agencies and a positive feeling on everyone's part.

This has been made possible by the tremendous spirit of cooperation from the Friels, The Galfords, Dave Curtis, and the Snowshoe Mountain Corporation. That said, as we all know, it is not a done deal until the PSC says go. But for the moment, I would like to than all of them for their willingness to work with us to move this project forward and Get R' Done. Another great step occurred today. Let us all hope that the progress continues.

David Litsey
Feb 15, 2012
11:17 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

A quick math correction: According to the report of the Engineer the size of the Mountain Top Plant is 600,000 gallons per day - normal cycle, not 550,000.

Joe Ferretti
Feb 15, 2012
11:37 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

David, thanks for your work and encouraging posts. I am curious about the dissenting vote on the PSD. What were the concerns that prompted the "nay" vote?

David Litsey
Feb 15, 2012
12:38 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

First, let me say that I am representing only my understanding of the reasons given. Then, remember this is a "preference" vote, not an all or nothing vote including or discluding anything. This votes give focus to a very expensive engineering process that is not taken upon lightly by the PSD or DEP (who does parrallel work).

Thus the reason given for the "No" vote, (he did say site 7A was his second choice) was that he preferred to build only a single plant, rather than two plants.

My view is that were it not for the steepness of the terrain coming off the top of Cheat Mountain at this particular location onto KARST terrain (and thus drinking water supplies), I might agree with him. However, to me, it simply isn't worth the risk - and you can go on and on from there - as we have for many years.

My point - (and others can make his points for themselves) is that two plants represents a compromise that to my knowledge is supported by all parties. It isn't my favorite, it isn't the cheapest, it isn't the safest (but it is safe), and a total failure doesn't not instantaneously shut down the mountain or the valley, but would give us one or two days to respond barring rocky outcroppings sliding off the hill. (Which I am assured by numerous engineers - will not happen.)

Hopefully, by adopting a position that is supported by the Homeowners-investors in the skiing industry as well as Intrawest which is the current economic engine driving the mountain and the other plaintiffs, we can arrive at a solution whereby we can put down the swords and move forward for everyone's benefit.

That said - we all await the final number crunching and examination by electro-microscopy that will determine whether or not this is financially feasible, an appropriate application of scientific principles involved, buildable, and affordable or whether or not we have to go to choice two,three,or four. Hopefully we are on the right track.

Judging from the reports on yesterday's meeting in Charleston, we are. I'm ready to move forward. Sure it is like kissing "Great Aunt Sue," but if Great Aunt Sue makes great apple pie, hey, I'll pucker up. Get R' Done.

Joe Ferretti
Feb 15, 2012
12:54 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Mr. Litsey, thanks again. Excellent work.

David Litsey
Feb 20, 2012
2:24 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Two Messages: First: After considerable research into this meaningless piece of trivia to the average user, the official wasteload design capacity of the village treatment facility will be a 550,000 gallon per day SBR, and that is the wastload that has been assigned by the DEP. The site 7A membrane plant will be 300,000 gpd and it has been assigned a wasteload allocation of that amount. I think it will be years (many, many, many) before we get there, but that is what we have.

Second: At today's meeting of the Board of the Pocahontas COunty Public Service District to approve resolutions and documents required by the various regulatory and funding agencies, Mr. Tracey ammended his vote on the proposed siting of the treatment facilities to an aye vote, thus bringing the siting to a unanimous agreement with which to present to the regulatory agencies. One more step in reaching conscensus on the best way to move forward. Thank you Mr. Tracey!

Martin Saffer
Feb 27, 2012
9:41 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Eight Rivers Safe Development, Inc.
100 Poplar Estates
Scott Depot, WV 25560

February 27, 2012

Mr. Scott Mandirola
West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection
Water and Wastewater Management
601 57th St., SE
Charleston, WV 25304

Dear Mr. Mandirola:

Eight Rivers Safe Development, Inc. is a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting economically sound and environmentally safe development on karst.

Karst landforms contain caves, underground streams and springs which make karst areas more sensitive to surface activities due to high pollution potential (rapid infiltration and transportation of contaminants) and the dynamic nature of karst (e.g. collapse, sinkhole formation, etc.).

Eight Rivers Safe Development, Inc. has carefully reviewed the recent unanimous decision by the Pocahontas County Public Service District to endorse and proceed with a cost-efficient comprehensive sewage treatment development plan for the Snowshoe/Silver Creek resorts and Linwood area.

We note that this plan will locate a new membrane treatment facility at Site 7A at the base of the mountain. This site minimizes immediate impacts to the karst, minimizes pollution potential from infiltration of raw sewage into sinkholes and caves from failed or leaking collection facilities and produces a higher quality effluent for discharge into the Big Spring Fork of the Elk River

The proposed plan decouples the mountain and valley sewage treatment needs by taking a decentralized approach to address the deficiencies on the mountain by retrofitting existing or installing new facilities at Snowshoe/Silver Creek.

A key feature of the proposed plan is the avoidance of the gravity flow pipeline from the Snowshoe/Silver Creek resorts to the base of the mountain. This greatly reduces the risk of a large sewage spill in the karst area of the Big Spring Fork and Upper Elk River where several large and significant caves (Sharps Cave, My Cave, Elk River Cave) and springs (Split Rock Spring, Big Spring Fork Spring Complex, Elk River Springs) are located.

The decentralized approach also enables the future opportunity for water - which is withdrawn from Shavers Lake to service Snowshoe/Silver Creek - to be returned to the Shavers Fork watershed thus eliminating inter-basin transfer from the Shavers Fork to the Elk River watershed.

We note the proposed plan reduces the total project cost by several millions of dollars by the elimination of unnecessary infrastructure (e.g. pipeline down mountain, pumping stations), utilization of membrane technology to reduce plant size and retrofit vs. new build options for existing treatment systems.

We also note that this plan most effectively addresses the majority of stakeholder issues which have repeatedly slowed or delayed this project and that many stakeholders – including Eight Rivers Safe Development - have come together to endorse the plan.

We applaud the Pocahontas County Public Service District for defining a better, less costly solution that will serve the current and future sewerage needs of the area and will require less ratepayer investment and lower usage fees.

Eight Rivers Safe Development, Inc. supports the Pocahontas County Public Service District’s proposal to locate the new membrane treatment facility at Site 7A and to retrofit the existing or build new treatment facilities on the mountain to serve Snowshoe/Silver Creek.

We ask that the West Virginia Department of Environmental Project approve and support this proposal.

We hope that the new plan can be implemented in a timely way and look forward to participating in reviews and providing input as this project moves forward.

Sincerely

George R. Phillips

George R. Phillips
President
Eight Rivers Safe Development, Inc.

Cc: Alex McLaughlin, The Calwell Practice
Pocahontas County Commission
Elk Headwaters Watershed Association
West Virginia Council of Trout Unlimited
Snowshoe Property Owners Council

Stump
Feb 27, 2012
10:59 am
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

Is site 7A capable of handling a 150 room hotel/lodge, and an additional 1000 homesites, if and when a casino comes to Snowshoe?

David Litsey
Feb 27, 2012
12:11 pm
Re: PSC/PSD/Sewer Issues

As written, the answer is possibly not - it depends on what land Snowshoe would make available to us. There is more land there but PSD's are not allowed to acquire land just for possible future use. The land is there, and I think we can really make it look so attractive over the next five years with water gardens and landscaping that they would welcome an addition. However there are no guarantees.

It could handle the equivalent of 3 Silver Creeks and employee housing. And please remember, we can't keep the motel we have now open 12 months a year. Gambling would be great - but as I understand it they are laying people off at the Greenbrieer. As far as private housing is concerned, I am afraid this thing is going to end up being so expensive becasue of the long dry lines being required that will have to be paid for by others becasue there are no customers, that people will seek locations that do not require hook-ups. There is a very good chance that the minimum fee for being hooked up to this thing could be very expensive - we'll know very shortly - and If you have a big house for occaisional use, well you could pay big time. If we had been able to keep this thing to 17.5 and the SRF gave us 0% interest, then my wife and I -we do not rent - would pay about 280 a quarter approximately. Well there is no guarantee that we will get 0% interest, or that the state will relent and allow us to not build the lines South until there are customers who want service and get the cost down to 17.5 million.

Like I say, the numbers keep rolling in now that we have a site. Stay tuned.

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